On the ball
After reading about the nasty Israel-Lebanon thing on CNN.com this morning and again this evening, I hopped over to Wikipedia on a whim to see if anyone had put up anything about the attacks yet. Boy, had they ever. I’m impressed.
The part I find most useful and enlightening is the long list of reactions by foreign leaders at the bottom of the article. What little sense Bush’s comments make is far out of line with the rest of the civilized world (with the exception of Canada), but I guess that’s to be expected. Ugh. Living in Europe is looking better and better.
Tags: miscellany
July 14th, 2006 at 8:59 am
Natalie,
Care to elaborate on what is out of line about President Bush’s remarks on the crisis? Because at this point, you would be getting a 2 out of 6. You’ve made an assertion, but you haven’t provided any supporting evidence for it. And what qualifies as part of the “civilized world?”
G
July 14th, 2006 at 2:20 pm
Sure. I linked to the evidence because I thought it was fairer to let anyone who was interested read for himself rather than to choose my favorite snippets, but here’s a sample of what I was thinking of:
Egypt — “Targeting civilians under the pretext of fighting terrorism is unacceptable and unjustified. Israeli practices violate international law.”
Japan — “I understand the anger of the Israelis, but I hope you will not seek an eye for an eye and keep in mind the importance of peace.â€
France — the Israeli offensive on Lebanon is a “disproportionate act of war with negative consequences” … “I call on all parties to show restraint and not engage in a cycle of violence in which civilian populations would be the first victims.”
Italy — “We have the impression that the (Israeli) reaction is out of proportion and dangerous for the consequences it could have, I think that this, apart from some nuances, is the way the whole international community sees the situation.”
EU — “The European Union is greatly concerned about the disproportionate use of force by Israel in Lebanon in response to attacks by Hezbollah on Israel.”
US — Bill Frist: “…no one should question the right of the government of Israel to act in self-defense against terrorists operating from Lebanon.” GWB: Israel has the right to defend themselves. … “The concern is that any activities by Israel to protect herself will weaken the (LRE) government.”
The representatives of most other countries, even those who specifically condemn Hezbollah and the capture of the Israeli soldiers, call Israel’s response “disproportionate” and ask both sides to stand down and stop killing civilians.
The US and Canadian representatives instead support Israel’s “right to defend herself.” Angela Merkel (Ger.) and the Saudi official do blame Hezbollah as well, but neither goes so far as to back up Israel.
While almost everyone condemns Hezbollah, the US is nearly alone in the world in its defense of Israel. I call that “out of line.”
[The recent UN resolution that the US has vetoed seems to exemplify this very point of disagreement, but I don’t know enough about the UN to argue that one well.]
I used “the civilized world” as shorthand for “the countries whose official opinions are represented in this article.” A bit coarse, perhaps, but I stand by it. I meant no offense.
July 16th, 2006 at 6:30 pm
please don’t forget that the Hezbolla group exists within the borders of Lebanon and projects its attacks outward from within those borders. Lebanon is either too weak, or more likely, unwilling to do anything about it because of the sectarian religious issues that that would raise.
Regardless of where H gets its suport, (Iran has been, and may currently still be the source of such suport) its membership is Lebonese. So, obviously, not only do you have the religious crap that gets in the way [sory G, i hope you’re not Muslim… but i use that perjorative term to criticize the culture that apparenlty can’t separate religion from affairs of state in any meaningful way… and people complain about “jesusland.” *cough cough - Natalie? :-)]
So, Israel has a choice - it can wait and hope for the world to make Hezbollah stop.. riiiiight.
It can hope Lebanon will do something… see above.
Or it can do what any country would do, which is defend itself. Whether we wish to call this a war or something less [I think this is the beginning of the big regional war over there] civilians tend to die on occasion. [insert comment here about how we ever would have fought WW2 in an era with 24-hr-news coverage… answer: we wouldnt have.]
Also Natalie.. please, stay in Europe. Try and find a job. Folks sharing your political persuasion continue to say that.. funny how none of them actually make the move. Hint - our tax bracket is kinder :-)]
July 16th, 2006 at 6:32 pm
oops- correction - after my paranthetical to Greg I forgot to finish my sentence - that should then read: “but you have the prospect of a general civil war.
July 16th, 2006 at 7:14 pm
I complain about Jesusland more than about other, crazier fundamentalist-leaning entities because I do not live in those other places and know less about them. I despise theocracy no matter where it arises.
I think that the world would back Israel more if it were less aggressive, and that this would be to Israel’s (and the world’s) advantage. I realize, however, that the world rarely behaves the way I would like it to.
I am mostly being facetious when I say I’m moving to Europe. It’s not about money, though—I’d be willing to pay a hell of a lot in taxes if it would get me the lifestyle and culture I want. I’m an unadventurous homebody, perpetually terrified of change and rather attached to my roots. So it’s nice to think I could stay here forever, but I don’t think I’m nearly strong or brave enough to leave everything behind. I could go on for pages and pages, but this isn’t therapy.
Ugh, I hate thinking deeply about my life…it always depresses me. Going to imagine rainbows and ice cream and puppies now instead, tra la la.
July 16th, 2006 at 8:27 pm
well, when you wake up, I have to take issue with your description of parts of America as a theocracy
Why should Israel be less aggressive? I believe many of them have died in the past 50 + years since 1948 when the UN proposed to create BOTH an Israeli state and one for Palestine; the Palestinians refused then, and have since refused all other good-faith offers because, siimply, they prefer to be the victim while they hope they can get the whole thing they want, namely, the destruction of said Israeli state. They did not start any of these fires [yay, i finally got to use my favorite billy joel line…] so they should not bear really any of the blame.
July 16th, 2006 at 9:50 pm
Not an actual theocracy, but tending toward one. Yes, smiley face, joke, ok.
I admit that I don’t know the Israel/Palestine story very well. And yes, if that’s how the story goes, then I can see how Israel could be feeling pretty righteous by now. Still, IMO, being in the right does not give one carte blanche to bomb airports and whatnot, nor does it make such action advisable.
Look, now you’ve made me go look up Palestine so I could figure out what this has to do with Lebanon. I’m guessing that P and Hezbollah both hate Israel, and H is based in L.
Whatever. I strongly dislike discussing politics, war, diplomacy, etc., which is why I rarely post about those things—people always want to talk about them, ugh. Remind me never to do it again. Nothing personal, y’all: it just grosses me out. [Poor choice of words, but did I mention I’m tired?]
August 1st, 2006 at 11:29 pm
not a theocracy???? we have god on our money (what’s more important to good Americans than their money?) in our pledge, congress says a prayer before they start business, and we swear on bibles in our courthouses -and i think somebody in the US thought this doc might have been important, “We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed, by their Creator”. . .
for all you nit-pickey people we do technically have a democratic republic (and not a democracy, look it up)
but while we dont push our govt for actual separation of church and state they will continue to be interwoven and the theocrats will use that to their advantage